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	<title>Comments for The Orange Mailman</title>
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		<title>Comment on The story of a cross in Spring Lake by The Orange Mailman</title>
		<link>http://theorangemailmanmyblog.wordpress.com/2013/03/05/the-story-of-a-cross-in-spring-lake/#comment-998</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Orange Mailman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 May 2013 23:38:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theorangemailmanmyblog.wordpress.com/?p=958#comment-998</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks TC.  Those were some good conversations.  We&#039;ll see if I make it over there.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks TC.  Those were some good conversations.  We&#8217;ll see if I make it over there.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The story of a cross in Spring Lake by TC</title>
		<link>http://theorangemailmanmyblog.wordpress.com/2013/03/05/the-story-of-a-cross-in-spring-lake/#comment-997</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 May 2013 02:08:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theorangemailmanmyblog.wordpress.com/?p=958#comment-997</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey, Mailman, I&#039;ve returned to blogging at New Leaven.  I thought you might like to know, since we interacted quite a bit. ;-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, Mailman, I&#8217;ve returned to blogging at New Leaven.  I thought you might like to know, since we interacted quite a bit. <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on A Case for the Pretribulation Rapture by Craig Blaising by Irv</title>
		<link>http://theorangemailmanmyblog.wordpress.com/2011/03/17/a-case-for-the-pretribulation-rapture-by-craig-blaising/#comment-991</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Irv]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Mar 2013 05:12:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theorangemailmanmyblog.wordpress.com/?p=622#comment-991</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[Just found this rapture shortie on the informative web. Enjoy.]

  Morgan Edwards&#039; Rapture View

          by George Wilson

     In 1995, in a 24-page booklet on 18th century pastor Morgan Edwards, evangelist John Bray claimed that Edwards taught a pretrib rapture in his 1788 book titled &quot;Two Academical Exercises....&quot;
     Those echoing Bray include Thomas Ice who wrote &quot;Morgan Edwards: Another Pre-Darby Rapturist.&quot; Edwards&#039; 1788 work can be found on the internet.
     In order to claim that Edwards held to pretrib, candidates for the I-can-find-pretrib-earlier-in-church-history-than-you-can medal - including Bray, Ice, LaHaye, Frank Marotta etc. - have intentionally covered up Edwards&#039; &quot;historicism,&quot; his belief that the tribulation had already been going on for hundreds of years. (How can anyone in the tribulation go back in time and look for a pretrib rapture?)
     Here&#039;s proof of Edwards&#039; historicism and its companion &quot;day-year&quot; theory which can view the 1260 tribulation &quot;days&quot; as &quot;years.&quot;
     On p. 14 Edwards described the Ottoman Empire (which was then already 400 years old) as the Rev. 13:11 &quot;beast.&quot; On p. 20 he defined &quot;Antichrist&quot; as the already 1000-year-old &quot;popery&quot; and the &quot;succession of persons&quot; known as &quot;Popes&quot; - his other Rev. 13 &quot;beast.&quot; He necessarily viewed Rev. 13&#039;s 1260-day period as 1260 literal years in order to provide enough time for his two &quot;beasts.&quot;
     On p. 19, while discussing &quot;the ministry of the witnesses&quot; of Rev. 11, he allotted &quot;about 204 years&quot; for their &quot;years to perform&quot; - years impossible to fit into a 3.5-year period!
     What about Edwards&#039; rapture? On pp. 21-23 he wrote about &quot;the appearing of the son of man in the clouds, coming to raise the dead saints and change the living, and to catch them up to himself....The signs of Christ&#039;s appearing in the clouds will be extraordinary &#039;wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes and famines,&#039; &amp;. (Matth. xxiv. 6-8.)....The signs of his coming, in the heavens will be &#039;the trump of God [I Thess. 4:16], vapor and smoke, which will darken the sun and moon [Matt. 24:29],&#039;...and also cause those meteors called &#039;falling stars&#039;....
     Right after his combined rapture/advent (!), Edwards said: &quot;And therefore, now, Antichrist...will...counterfeit the preceding wonders in heaven...causing &#039;fire to come down from heaven&#039;....And that godhead he will now assume, after killing the two witnesses....Now the great persecution of the Jews will begin...for time, times, and half a time....&quot;
     Thomas Ice&#039;s article on Edwards (listed at start) quoted only the first 27 words in the above quotation which end with &quot;to himself&quot; - and you can see why pretrib defender Ice stopped quoting there! (For an Ice-covered piece, Google &quot;Pretrib Rapture Pride.&quot;)
     Not only had most of Edwards&#039; historicist tribulation occurred before his combined rapture/advent, but incredibly his Antichrist kept raging for 3.5 years even after the Matt. 24 signs! No wonder his tutor advised him to correct his thesis!
     To read Edwards&#039; complete work, Google &quot;[PDF] Two Academical Exercises...www.breadoflifebiblestudy.com.&quot;
     For more info on Edwards, Google &quot;McPherson Page (thebibletruth.org).&quot; Also Google &quot;Deceiving and Being Deceived&quot; by historian Dave MacPherson.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[Just found this rapture shortie on the informative web. Enjoy.]</p>
<p>  Morgan Edwards&#8217; Rapture View</p>
<p>          by George Wilson</p>
<p>     In 1995, in a 24-page booklet on 18th century pastor Morgan Edwards, evangelist John Bray claimed that Edwards taught a pretrib rapture in his 1788 book titled &#8220;Two Academical Exercises&#8230;.&#8221;<br />
     Those echoing Bray include Thomas Ice who wrote &#8220;Morgan Edwards: Another Pre-Darby Rapturist.&#8221; Edwards&#8217; 1788 work can be found on the internet.<br />
     In order to claim that Edwards held to pretrib, candidates for the I-can-find-pretrib-earlier-in-church-history-than-you-can medal &#8211; including Bray, Ice, LaHaye, Frank Marotta etc. &#8211; have intentionally covered up Edwards&#8217; &#8220;historicism,&#8221; his belief that the tribulation had already been going on for hundreds of years. (How can anyone in the tribulation go back in time and look for a pretrib rapture?)<br />
     Here&#8217;s proof of Edwards&#8217; historicism and its companion &#8220;day-year&#8221; theory which can view the 1260 tribulation &#8220;days&#8221; as &#8220;years.&#8221;<br />
     On p. 14 Edwards described the Ottoman Empire (which was then already 400 years old) as the Rev. 13:11 &#8220;beast.&#8221; On p. 20 he defined &#8220;Antichrist&#8221; as the already 1000-year-old &#8220;popery&#8221; and the &#8220;succession of persons&#8221; known as &#8220;Popes&#8221; &#8211; his other Rev. 13 &#8220;beast.&#8221; He necessarily viewed Rev. 13&#8242;s 1260-day period as 1260 literal years in order to provide enough time for his two &#8220;beasts.&#8221;<br />
     On p. 19, while discussing &#8220;the ministry of the witnesses&#8221; of Rev. 11, he allotted &#8220;about 204 years&#8221; for their &#8220;years to perform&#8221; &#8211; years impossible to fit into a 3.5-year period!<br />
     What about Edwards&#8217; rapture? On pp. 21-23 he wrote about &#8220;the appearing of the son of man in the clouds, coming to raise the dead saints and change the living, and to catch them up to himself&#8230;.The signs of Christ&#8217;s appearing in the clouds will be extraordinary &#8216;wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes and famines,&#8217; &amp;. (Matth. xxiv. 6-8.)&#8230;.The signs of his coming, in the heavens will be &#8216;the trump of God [I Thess. 4:16], vapor and smoke, which will darken the sun and moon [Matt. 24:29],&#8217;&#8230;and also cause those meteors called &#8216;falling stars&#8217;&#8230;.<br />
     Right after his combined rapture/advent (!), Edwards said: &#8220;And therefore, now, Antichrist&#8230;will&#8230;counterfeit the preceding wonders in heaven&#8230;causing &#8216;fire to come down from heaven&#8217;&#8230;.And that godhead he will now assume, after killing the two witnesses&#8230;.Now the great persecution of the Jews will begin&#8230;for time, times, and half a time&#8230;.&#8221;<br />
     Thomas Ice&#8217;s article on Edwards (listed at start) quoted only the first 27 words in the above quotation which end with &#8220;to himself&#8221; &#8211; and you can see why pretrib defender Ice stopped quoting there! (For an Ice-covered piece, Google &#8220;Pretrib Rapture Pride.&#8221;)<br />
     Not only had most of Edwards&#8217; historicist tribulation occurred before his combined rapture/advent, but incredibly his Antichrist kept raging for 3.5 years even after the Matt. 24 signs! No wonder his tutor advised him to correct his thesis!<br />
     To read Edwards&#8217; complete work, Google &#8220;[PDF] Two Academical Exercises&#8230;www.breadoflifebiblestudy.com.&#8221;<br />
     For more info on Edwards, Google &#8220;McPherson Page (thebibletruth.org).&#8221; Also Google &#8220;Deceiving and Being Deceived&#8221; by historian Dave MacPherson.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Michael Patton on Progressive Covenantalism by how shall we love</title>
		<link>http://theorangemailmanmyblog.wordpress.com/2010/08/07/michael-patton-on-progressive-covenantalism/#comment-990</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[how shall we love]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Mar 2013 14:15:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theorangemailmanmyblog.wordpress.com/2010/08/07/michael-patton-on-progressive-covenantalism#comment-990</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Reblogged this on &lt;a href=&quot;http://howshallwelove.wordpress.com/2013/03/07/349/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;A Temporary Life&lt;/a&gt; and commented: 
Interesting alternative to Dispenationalism and Covenant Theology.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reblogged this on <a href="http://howshallwelove.wordpress.com/2013/03/07/349/" rel="nofollow">A Temporary Life</a> and commented:<br />
Interesting alternative to Dispenationalism and Covenant Theology.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Historic Pre-Millennialism misrepresented&#8230;. AGAIN! by The Orange Mailman</title>
		<link>http://theorangemailmanmyblog.wordpress.com/2011/07/10/historic-pre-millennialism-misrepresented-again/#comment-989</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Orange Mailman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Mar 2013 11:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theorangemailmanmyblog.wordpress.com/?p=769#comment-989</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve read Dave MacPherson who gets down to these origin issues.  I tend (as of now) to focus on present interpretations of scripture and dialogue based on where people are coming from now.  The origin of the position doesn&#039;t always affect where people stand presently.  So, yes, I&#039;ve heard about this stuff but I&#039;m not really focusing on it right now.

Have fun and stay busy - Luke 19:13

-The Orange Mailman]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve read Dave MacPherson who gets down to these origin issues.  I tend (as of now) to focus on present interpretations of scripture and dialogue based on where people are coming from now.  The origin of the position doesn&#8217;t always affect where people stand presently.  So, yes, I&#8217;ve heard about this stuff but I&#8217;m not really focusing on it right now.</p>
<p>Have fun and stay busy &#8211; Luke 19:13</p>
<p>-The Orange Mailman</p>
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		<title>Comment on Historic Pre-Millennialism misrepresented&#8230;. AGAIN! by Irv</title>
		<link>http://theorangemailmanmyblog.wordpress.com/2011/07/10/historic-pre-millennialism-misrepresented-again/#comment-988</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Irv]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Mar 2013 08:28:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theorangemailmanmyblog.wordpress.com/?p=769#comment-988</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[Greets Orange. Super blog that you have. I saw this goodie on the net. Any reaction?]

Margaret Macdonald&#039;s Rapture Chart !

      &quot;church&quot;    RAPTURE    &quot;church&quot;
(present age)                     (tribulation)


     In early 1830 Margaret was the very first one to see a pre-Antichrist (pretrib) rapture in the Bible - and John Walvoord and Hal Lindsey lend support for this claim!
     Walvoord&#039;s &quot;Rapture Question&quot; (1979) says her view resembles the &quot;partial-rapture view&quot; and Lindsey&#039;s &quot;The Rapture&quot; (1983) admits that &quot;she definitely teaches a partial rapture.&quot;
     But there&#039;s more. Lindsey (p. 26) says that partial rapturists see only &quot;spiritual&quot; Christians in the rapture and &quot;unspiritual&quot; ones left behind to endure Antichrist&#039;s trial. And Walvoord (p. 97) calls partial rapturists &quot;pretribulationists&quot;!
     Margaret&#039;s pretrib view was a partial rapture form of it since only those &quot;filled with the Spirit&quot; would be raptured before the revealing of the Antichrist. A few critics, who&#039;ve been repeating more than researching, have noted &quot;Church&quot; in the tribulation section of her account. Since they haven&#039;t known that all partial rapturists see &quot;Church&quot; on earth after their pretrib rapture (see above chart), they&#039;ve wrongly assumed that Margaret was a posttrib!
     In Sep. 1830 Edward Irving&#039;s journal &quot;The Morning Watch&quot; (hereafter: TMW) was the first to publicly reflect her novel view when it saw spiritual &quot;Philadelphia&quot; raptured before &quot;the great tribulation&quot; and unspiritual &quot;Laodicea&quot; left on earth.
     In Dec. 1830 John Darby (the so-called &quot;father of dispensationalism&quot; even though he wasn&#039;t first on any crucial aspect of it!) was still defending the historic posttrib rapture view in the &quot;Christian Herald.&quot;
     Pretrib didn&#039;t spring from a &quot;church/Israel&quot; dichotomy, as many have assumed, but sprang from a &quot;church/church&quot; one, as we&#039;ve seen, and was based only on symbols!
     But innate anti-Jewishness soon appeared. (As noted, TMW in Sep. 1830 saw only less worthy church members left behind.) In Sep. 1832 TMW said that less worthy church members and &quot;Jews&quot; would be left behind. But by Mar. 1833 TMW was sure that only &quot;Jews&quot; would face the Antichrist!
     As late as 1837 the non-dichotomous Darby saw the church &quot;going in with Him to the marriage, to wit, with Jerusalem and the Jews.&quot; And he didn&#039;t clearly teach pretrib until 1839. His basis then was the Rev. 12:5 &quot;man child...caught up&quot; symbol he&#039;d &quot;borrowed&quot; (without giving credit) from Irving who had been the first to use it for the same purpose in 1831!
     For related articles Google &quot;X-Raying Margaret,&quot; &quot;Edward Irving is Unnerving,&quot; &quot;Pretrib Rapture&#039;s Missing Lines,&quot; &quot;The Unoriginal John Darby,&quot; &quot;Deceiving and Being Deceived&quot; by D.M., &quot;Pretrib Rapture Pride,&quot; &quot;Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty&quot; and &quot;Scholars Weigh My Research.&quot; The most documented and accurate book on pretrib rapture history is &quot;The Rapture Plot&quot; (see Armageddon Books online) - a 300-pager that has hundreds of disarming facts (like the ones above) not found in any other source.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[Greets Orange. Super blog that you have. I saw this goodie on the net. Any reaction?]</p>
<p>Margaret Macdonald&#8217;s Rapture Chart !</p>
<p>      &#8220;church&#8221;    RAPTURE    &#8220;church&#8221;<br />
(present age)                     (tribulation)</p>
<p>     In early 1830 Margaret was the very first one to see a pre-Antichrist (pretrib) rapture in the Bible &#8211; and John Walvoord and Hal Lindsey lend support for this claim!<br />
     Walvoord&#8217;s &#8220;Rapture Question&#8221; (1979) says her view resembles the &#8220;partial-rapture view&#8221; and Lindsey&#8217;s &#8220;The Rapture&#8221; (1983) admits that &#8220;she definitely teaches a partial rapture.&#8221;<br />
     But there&#8217;s more. Lindsey (p. 26) says that partial rapturists see only &#8220;spiritual&#8221; Christians in the rapture and &#8220;unspiritual&#8221; ones left behind to endure Antichrist&#8217;s trial. And Walvoord (p. 97) calls partial rapturists &#8220;pretribulationists&#8221;!<br />
     Margaret&#8217;s pretrib view was a partial rapture form of it since only those &#8220;filled with the Spirit&#8221; would be raptured before the revealing of the Antichrist. A few critics, who&#8217;ve been repeating more than researching, have noted &#8220;Church&#8221; in the tribulation section of her account. Since they haven&#8217;t known that all partial rapturists see &#8220;Church&#8221; on earth after their pretrib rapture (see above chart), they&#8217;ve wrongly assumed that Margaret was a posttrib!<br />
     In Sep. 1830 Edward Irving&#8217;s journal &#8220;The Morning Watch&#8221; (hereafter: TMW) was the first to publicly reflect her novel view when it saw spiritual &#8220;Philadelphia&#8221; raptured before &#8220;the great tribulation&#8221; and unspiritual &#8220;Laodicea&#8221; left on earth.<br />
     In Dec. 1830 John Darby (the so-called &#8220;father of dispensationalism&#8221; even though he wasn&#8217;t first on any crucial aspect of it!) was still defending the historic posttrib rapture view in the &#8220;Christian Herald.&#8221;<br />
     Pretrib didn&#8217;t spring from a &#8220;church/Israel&#8221; dichotomy, as many have assumed, but sprang from a &#8220;church/church&#8221; one, as we&#8217;ve seen, and was based only on symbols!<br />
     But innate anti-Jewishness soon appeared. (As noted, TMW in Sep. 1830 saw only less worthy church members left behind.) In Sep. 1832 TMW said that less worthy church members and &#8220;Jews&#8221; would be left behind. But by Mar. 1833 TMW was sure that only &#8220;Jews&#8221; would face the Antichrist!<br />
     As late as 1837 the non-dichotomous Darby saw the church &#8220;going in with Him to the marriage, to wit, with Jerusalem and the Jews.&#8221; And he didn&#8217;t clearly teach pretrib until 1839. His basis then was the Rev. 12:5 &#8220;man child&#8230;caught up&#8221; symbol he&#8217;d &#8220;borrowed&#8221; (without giving credit) from Irving who had been the first to use it for the same purpose in 1831!<br />
     For related articles Google &#8220;X-Raying Margaret,&#8221; &#8220;Edward Irving is Unnerving,&#8221; &#8220;Pretrib Rapture&#8217;s Missing Lines,&#8221; &#8220;The Unoriginal John Darby,&#8221; &#8220;Deceiving and Being Deceived&#8221; by D.M., &#8220;Pretrib Rapture Pride,&#8221; &#8220;Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty&#8221; and &#8220;Scholars Weigh My Research.&#8221; The most documented and accurate book on pretrib rapture history is &#8220;The Rapture Plot&#8221; (see Armageddon Books online) &#8211; a 300-pager that has hundreds of disarming facts (like the ones above) not found in any other source.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Critique of Parousia #15 by The Orange Mailman</title>
		<link>http://theorangemailmanmyblog.wordpress.com/2011/06/21/critique-of-parousia-15/#comment-982</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Orange Mailman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2013 02:02:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theorangemailmanmyblog.wordpress.com/?p=753#comment-982</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Adrian.  I wrote a more recent piece on this.  Check out my main page and you&#039;ll find it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Adrian.  I wrote a more recent piece on this.  Check out my main page and you&#8217;ll find it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Critique of Parousia #15 by Adrian Marine</title>
		<link>http://theorangemailmanmyblog.wordpress.com/2011/06/21/critique-of-parousia-15/#comment-981</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adrian Marine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2013 01:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theorangemailmanmyblog.wordpress.com/?p=753#comment-981</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I like that you say the mystery in Revelation 10 is the Mystery of lawlessness found in 2 Thess. 2:7!  I was thinking that it could be the Rapture, but lawlessness is a better fit. I see the 7th trumpet coming at the end of the 1st 42 weeks, with the 3rd woe being Satan coming to earth as seen in Revelation 12:12... &quot; but woe to the earth...Satan...having great wrath...:  Adrian Marine]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like that you say the mystery in Revelation 10 is the Mystery of lawlessness found in 2 Thess. 2:7!  I was thinking that it could be the Rapture, but lawlessness is a better fit. I see the 7th trumpet coming at the end of the 1st 42 weeks, with the 3rd woe being Satan coming to earth as seen in Revelation 12:12&#8230; &#8221; but woe to the earth&#8230;Satan&#8230;having great wrath&#8230;:  Adrian Marine</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Mystery of Iniquity in II Thessalonians 2:7 by The Orange Mailman</title>
		<link>http://theorangemailmanmyblog.wordpress.com/2013/01/20/the-mystery-of-iniquity-in-ii-thessalonians-27/#comment-977</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Orange Mailman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2013 02:21:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theorangemailmanmyblog.wordpress.com/?p=956#comment-977</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks.  I sure will.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks.  I sure will.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Mystery of Iniquity in II Thessalonians 2:7 by Bruce Wallace</title>
		<link>http://theorangemailmanmyblog.wordpress.com/2013/01/20/the-mystery-of-iniquity-in-ii-thessalonians-27/#comment-974</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bruce Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2013 14:41:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theorangemailmanmyblog.wordpress.com/?p=956#comment-974</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I enjoy your articles and have a great day in the Lord]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoy your articles and have a great day in the Lord</p>
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