Gog- Twice Even

Russia flexing its military might has sparked a barrage of posts on the internet about Gog and Magog.  The recent conflict between Russia and Georgia over South Ossetia has drawn in the European Union, Israel, Syria, and the good old United States of America.  A person’s predisposition to the Gog/Magog prophecies of Ezekiel 38-39 will play into how they view current events in light of the end of the age.

 

I have some opinions on Ezekiel 38 and 39 which almost nobody shares.  If anyone else agrees with me, let me know because it would be the first time anyone has.  I believe that the Gog/Magog prophecies have been sensationalized almost to the extent of the rapture prophecies.  Most prophecy students believe it’s a fact that the land dubbed Magog is the land of Russia.  A majority of articles I read also believe that the Gog invasion will occur prior to Daniel’s seventieth week in order to set up a scenario for a seven year peace treaty, or will occur after a seven year peace treaty has been established resulting in peaceful living in the land of Israel.

 

It is true that this figure named Gog comes out of the north parts.  To put this in relation to Israel is good hermeneutics.  But just how far north are we talking about?  Look at some of the countries that are aligned with Gog, Ezekiel 38:5-6.  We have Persia which was east of Israel in modern day Iran.  Ethiopia and Libya are in Africa, which is sort of south of Israel.  The Mediterranean Sea is west of Israel.  Gomer and Togarmah are usually identified with portions of modern day Turkey and part of the Ukraine, which of course is north of Israel.  It’s like Ezekiel used terminology to convey a conglomerate of military forces from all sides of Israel.  From the south, east, and north, they will gather against you headed up by this figure from the north.

 

So is Magog actually Russia?  It could be.  It seems very likely considering our current scenario.  But I don’t have it written in stone as some prophecy scholars do.  We need to keep our eyes on the development of leagues and treaties to see which nations will be confederate against Israel.  Russia could ally itself with China to become part of the kings of the east instead of the Gog/Magog conglomerate from the north.  Turkey could very well be at the heart of this Gog/Magog prophecy and we just don’t know it yet.  My options are open on this.

 

One thing I am not very open minded on is timing.  Here is the portion where I can’t find anybody to agree with me.  My previous two posts show that I am Millennarian.  Ezekiel 38-39 has language that clearly identifies itself with Armageddon which is a PreMillennial event occurring at the very end of Daniel’s 70th week.  Yet Revelation 20:7-9 explain Gog/Magog to be a PostMillennial event.  Solution:  By examining the original prophecy, we can clearly see a division which shows a portion of Gog/Magog to be fulfilled before the Millennium and a portion to be fulfilled after the Millennium (after many days).

 

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In Ezekiel 38 you notice that Gog is marching with a multi-national attack force. But in verse 4 it says that they are turned around by the divine intervention of God.  He puts hooks in their jaws to lead them wherever He wants them to go.  “After many days” (Ezekiel 38:8) there is another confrontation, but this time Israel is dwelling safely. That’s because Israel will dwell safely during the Millennial kingdom. Jeremiah 23:5-6 links the Messianic reign with Israel dwelling safely.  The phrase “after many days” reminds us of Isaiah 24:22 which is another inference to the Millennial Kingdom.

“After many days” Gog and Magog make a supernatural comeback. The armies of PostMil Gog advance on Israel despite what happened a full thousand years ago. The evil thought comes into his mind (38:10) because Satan has been freshly released from prison to deceive the nations one last time.  As Gog leads the nations, the LORD will display His wrath by simply consuming them.  So Ezekiel 38 starts out by describing armies on their way to the battle of Armageddon which occurs after the great tribulation has been cut short by God pouring out His wrath.  But when we arrive at the phrase “after many days”, the prophecy of Ezekiel 38:8-23 gives us a window into the far future of a PostMillennial event which occurs as Israel is living in complete security and safety in the Messianic Kingdom.

In Ezekiel 39:1 we begin a new oracle from Ezekiel.  Instead of flashing forward to “after many days” it is revealed what occurs to some of PreMil Gog’s forces that marched on to Armageddon. They are turned around but continue on only to fall in battle on the mountains of Israel. The remainder of Ezekiel 39 uses language almost identical with the language of Armageddon in the book of Revelation. The birds gathering for the feast is the main parallel point; cf. Ezekiel 39:17-20 with Revelation 19:17-18. Notice how the invitation is given directly to the birds in both passages.  But also God pours out His Spirit upon the nation of Israel as He gathers them out from every land. So Ezekiel 39 describes the PreMillennial event of Gog coming against Israel, while Ezekiel 38:8-23 describes the PostMillennial event of Gog coming against Israel.  Yes it happens twice.  Of course they are different individuals with the same title separated by a thousand years.

In Revelation, we read about the battle of Armageddon (Revelation 19:11-21) which occurs before the Millennial Kingdom which matches up with Ezekiel 38:1-7 and Ezekiel 39. We also read about Gog and Magog coming against the beloved city after the Millennial Kingdom (Revelation 20:7-9) which matches up with Ezekiel 38:8-23.  Ezekiel saw both events but they can be distinguished.  They are quite similar but separated by at least a millennium. This is the ultimate end of mankind without God; to be forever in rebellion against Him, even after His glory has been demonstrated by ruling in person for 1000 years.

I point this out because so many people think that Israel is going to live safely in unwalled villages before the Great Tribulation. Israel will only live in safety and security during the Messianic Kingdom. The prophets always paint the Messianic reign in this way. So I believe people are waiting for a sign which will never happen. When Daniel’s seventieth week comes, many people could be in denial. They would think it couldn’t be happening because Israel must be living in peace.  This is in opposition to Luke 21:24 which states that Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

 

Jeremiah 23:5-6, mentioned above, has a parallel passage in Jeremiah 33:15-17.  You can compare with Jeremiah 32:37-41 linking safe dwelling with the everlasting covenant.  Isaiah 32:15-18 portrays the pouring out of the spirit occurring with the secure dwelling of God’s people in a peaceable habitation.  Ezekiel’s own use of the word confirms my view.  Ezekiel 28:25-26 but especially 34:24-31 show a picture of God restoring His relationship with the nation of Israel and giving them complete safety.  Note Ezekiel 39:26 which places the dwelling in safety after God has slaughtered the forces of PreMil Gog at the battle of Armageddon.

 

Is Gog the antichrist?  I believe he will be AN antichrist.  I do not identify the PreMil Gog with the little horn of Daniel 7 or beast of Revelation 13, but I would be open to persuasion on this point.  He comes from the far north to meet other armies at the battle of Armageddon.  The beast of Revelation 13 will have his foothold in Jerusalem, Daniel 11:45, not the far north.  The same passage speaks of a king from the north who will come against him, Daniel 11:40  The beast’s ten nation confederacy will send their armies against Jesus Christ.  The kings of the east will do the same.  I see Gog from the north as being the head of another conglomerate who will attempt to join the beast and his ten kings, and the kings of the east.  God will turn some of Gog’s armies around so that not all make it to the slaughter of Armageddon.  Speculation makes me think that the three spirits going out of the mouth of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet will result in three multi-national military forces gathering to the battle of Armageddon.

Have fun and stay busy – Luke 19:13

-The Orange Mailman

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6 Responses to Gog- Twice Even

  1. Brian says:

    Hi Darrin,
     
    Great article!  I believe you have the correct view.  There is definitely some correspondence between Ezekiel 39 and the battle of Armageddon.  And yes.. I too have noticed the \’after many days when Israel is dwelling in safety\’ clause. 
     
    Peace & Health,
     
    Brian

  2. Darrin says:

    Someone agrees with me?  Pinch me.  I must be dreaming.

  3. Kerry says:

    Hi Orange,
     
    Long time, was just seeing if you were still around.  Interesting theory but you will need to explain a few verses.
     
    Eze 39:8  Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken.
     
    Can you show God has spoken of the end of the millinnium elsewhere in scripture?  God says He has spoken of this day from Exe 39.
     
    Eze 39:15  And the passengers that pass through the land, when any seeth a man\’s bone, then shall he set up a sign by it, till the buriers have buried it in the valley of Hamongog.
     
    Wouldn\’t the bones rise to meet their souls at the Great White Throne Judgment?
     
    Eze 39:22  So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
     
    How could Israel not know that the Lord was their God during the millinnium as He is reigning from Jerusalem amonst them?
     
    Eze 39:29  Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
     
    This would mean God doesn\’t pour His spirit out upon them until after the millinnium.  Can you back that with other scripture?
     
    Peace,Seeker

  4. Darrin says:

    What\’s up Seeker?
     
    You will have to read the post again.  I place chapter 39 at Armageddon, which is Pre-Millennial.  Only 38:8-23 do I place as Post-Millennial.
     
    The end of the Millennium is difficult for us to see from our vantage point, but not impossible.  For example, Psalm 107 is a millennial psalm since it is fulfilled after the gathering from all lands (the second exodus).  It doesn\’t really focus on the end, per se.  And therein lies the problem.
     
    The end for us is the end of the age.  After that, it seems we have only "afters".  The notable one is "after many days" in Isaiah 24:22 and Ezekiel 38:8.  The goal of the prophets was to provoke Israel as a nation to repentance.  After Israel repents, then God establishes her in a place of prominence among the Gentile nations.  All nations will flow unto Mount Zion.  The good news is sounded throughout the earth from Mount Zion.  We know that there will be a final rebellion, but since the goal of the prophets was to provoke their nation to repentance, there was no purpose is foretelling it to Israel.  After Israel\’s repentance, they are saved, and their generations which arise after them as well.  So Israel will not rebel in the final rebellion, but only certain nations.
     
    But to answer your question, the passage in Ezekiel need be the only passage.  God only has to say something once.  The day whereof He has spoken would be right there in Ezekiel 38.
     
    Have fun and stay busy – Luke 19:13
     
    -The Orange Mailman

  5. Kerry says:

    Hi Orange,
     
    Ok I see where you are coming from now.  I can see the logic and scripture path you use to get there and find it sound reasoning so far.  My gut says you are wrong though…lol.  Your Gog will have to be the same Gog in both cases though.
     
    Eze 38:7  Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them. Eze 38:8  After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
     
    The is no indication that the text has changed who it is talking about between verses 7 and 8.  The same Gog is being addressed as "thou" in both verses.  Your second Gog would have to be the first Gog raised from the dead.  The modern King James version is a tad bit clearer here I think.
     
    Eze 38:7  Be prepared; yea, prepare for yourself, you and all your assembly that are assembled to you, and be a guard to them. Eze 38:8  After many days you will be visited. In the latter years you shall come into the land turned back from the sword, gathered out of many peoples, on the mountains of Israel, which have always been waste. (But he has been brought out of the peoples, and they shall dwell securely, all of them.)
     
    Eze 38:16  And you shall come up on My people Israel like a cloud, to cover the land. It shall be in the last days, and I will bring you against My land, so that the nations may know Me when I shall be sanctified in you, O Gog, before their eyes.
     
    The MKJV uses the last days 38:16 rather than latter days as the KJV does but yet uses latter in Eze 38:8 as does the KJV.  The authors of the MJKV must have seen a slightly different meaning here.  I just noticed that.  I was heading to this verse to question whether after the millennium would be considered the latter days/years.  These verses from Rev 10 make me think time ends when the millennium begins.
     
    Rev 10:6  And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: Rev 10:7  But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
     
    There should be time no longer is an odd phrase.  MKJV uses the same phrase.  The mystery of God is finished at the 7th trumpet.
     
    Rev 11:15  And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
     
    Christ begins His eternal reign.  Time would be meaningless in eternity which makes me think "shall be time no longer".  The phrases in Rev 10 seem to be linked to the last days.  This is what Jesus says happens on the last day.
     
    (John 6:39)  And this is the Father\’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
    (John 6:40)  And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
    (John 6:44)  No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
    (John 6:54)  Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
    (John 11:24)  Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
    (John 12:48)  He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
     
    There is the resurrection on the last of the last days 😉  Anyway I\’ll continue to consider what you are saying.  On a certain level it makes sense to me.  It may also be a clue to something that has haunted me for a long time.  There are several events in the bible that seem to say that the beginning of the millennium is the same as the end.  There appears to be the same events described on both sides of the millennium.
     
    Matthew 25 for example.
     
    Mat 25:31  When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: Mat 25:32  And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: Mat 25:33  And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
    Mat 25:34  Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
     
    Mat 25:41  Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
     
    This appears to be the second resurrection because the rest of the dead didn\’t live until after the 1,000 years.  I can only see saints in the first resurrection of Rev 20:4.  But it says when He comes in His glory and all the holy angels with Him.  That appears to be discussing His arrival at Rev 19 but we have characteristics of the great white throne judgment.  There are a couple others out there as well.  Maybe that is something like you are seeing in Eze 38-39.  Time to head to work but I will contemplate this all throughout the evening.
     
    Take care and stay busy…lol
     
    Peace,Seeker

  6. Darrin says:

    Hey Seeker, contemplate away, my friend.
     
    Same Gog, different time period.  Gog is simply a title, a prince.  So it is the prince of Magog, whoever it may be at that time.  So I have no problem seeing two Gogs here, one Pre-Mil and one Post-Mil.  The prophets saw things in this way many times.  I\’ll have to investigate a bit further on how different versions render the phrase "latter days" as you point out.  It\’s worth studying.
     
    I believe in Revelation 10:6 that the rendering should be "there will be no more delay".  I had a debate with Ron Wallace about this one time.  No more delay as in no more delay in the completion of the mystery of God.  Which in my mind, the mystery of God is the establishment of the Messianic reign.  It\’s described immediately after when it states that the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our God and of His Christ.  That is what completes the mystery.  The mystery itself (to me) is the veil spread over the nations described in Isaiah 25.
     
    The judgement of the sheep and goats gives me fits too.  I could see placing it Pre-Mil, Post-Mil, or in an ongoing way throughout the Messianic Kingdom.  One thing I\’ve decided though, the principle of how to treat the least of these is good for any time period.  It is a specific event, but it is told to demonstrate how to show kindness in light of a coming rule of judgement.  So while the event will happen at some time, the main point was to live according to the rule so as to be on the side of the sheep at the judgement.
     
    Have fun and stay busy – Luke 19:13
     
    -The Orange Mailman

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