The Kingdom of Heaven in Story Form ~ #12
#12 ~ The Olivet Discourse – The Parable of the Fig Tree
Matthew 24-25 is known as The Olivet Discourse because it occurred on the Mount of Olives. Jesus outlines details of the events leading up to His coming in power and glory. After describing these events, Jesus tells 6 parables, 3 shorter followed by 3 longer. Some of these parables are stated to be about the Kingdom of Heaven. So, in some way the Kingdom of Heaven is related to the coming of Jesus in power and glory. We will study the events and then look at the very first short parable. The Kingdom of Heaven has some aspects that are present in the person of Jesus as He ministered, but some aspects are associated with His coming, which is yet future.
Note: I started this lesson by telling a story from when I was a teenager. I was first saved and began reading the Bible. Someone that I respected very much came to me excited about something they had learned in the Bible. The person said, “You know how in the Bible that Russia is symbolized by a bear, right?” I said, “Yeah.” And you know how the lion represents England, right?” I said, “Yeah.” And when the United States was first formed, we had a snake on our flag?” I said, “Okay.” Then the person said, “Now read Amos 5:19.” Which at this point I read Amos 5:19 to the class. (Back to my teenager story.) Me being young and impressionable in my faith, I gasped and thought this was some great epiphany.
Then I asked the class, “What is the problem with the way this person presented the scriptures to me?” The issue that I pointed out is that this person gave me information that is not in the passage, and in fact is nowhere in the scripture, and then after giving me that information, then told me to read the scripture. This is what a lot of teachers do. Before you can read the Olivet Discourse, they will give you a bunch of information that is not in the text, and in fact in not in the Bible anywhere, and then after their long complicated explanations about why the Olivet Discourse is not for the church, then they will say, okay, now you can go ahead and read the text.
I told the class, I’m not going to give you a bunch of information that is not in the text. We are going to read through the entire Olivet Discourse and let it speak for itself. So, on with the lesson.
Matthew 24:1-2 ~ The Setting. Against the backdrop of the rejection of Jesus and the desolation that is going to come upon Jerusalem, Jesus reveals to the disciples that the temple will be destroyed. For those disciples who still insisted that Jesus would immediately set up His kingdom, this would raise some eyebrows and some questions.
Matthew 24:3 ~ The Question. This prompts a couple of questions from the disciples concerning His coming and the end of the age. The word translated age (or world) is the Greek word aion which refers to time in some manner. Our English word eon is derived from it. Interestingly enough, it was used by Jesus when He said “For thine in the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.” We have translated aion to mean forever in that sentence. Jesus has spent some time teaching about the age to come in Matthew 12:32, “Whoever speaks a word against the Holy Spirit it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age, nor in the age to come.” In the parable of the tares in Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43, the harvest is the end of the age. Luke 20:34-35 equates the age to come with the resurrection.
Matthew 24:4-8 ~ The Birth Pains. What are the different world events that Jesus considers to be birth pains? Are these birth pains to be considered signs of the end or signs of the coming of Jesus? Note that the Greek word for birth pains or sorrows is odin which should be translated as the pain of childbirth. Cross reference Romans 8:18-23. The Greek word translated labors with birth pangs is sunodino, a compound word from sun (with) and odino (the verb form of odin) which means to feel the pains of childbirth. When are these birth pains in both passages happening? Note that the Greek word translated be not alarmed or be not troubled is the Greek word throeo which means to raise a false alarm.
Note: My point of view is that the birth pains are occurring right now and have been all throughout history. This is what our discussion was centered around in the questions above.
Matthew 24:9-9-14 ~ Tribulation (persecution) for the name of Jesus. Who is this tribulation against? The Greek word is thlipsis which means a very intense pressing together. Word study on tribulation: Acts 14:22, Romans 12:12, II Corinthians 1:4, II Corinthians 4:17, Colossians 1:24, I Thessalonians 1:6, II Thessalonians 1:4-6, Revelation 1:9. What is occurring while this tribulation is happening against followers of Jesus Christ?
Note: This was a great study. Instead of priming them to say the church will not be here for tribulation, I showed them the scriptures that tribulation is promised for the church as the church is preaching the gospel. It was quite effective.
The End of the Age in Matthew. Note that in response to the question of, “What shall be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”, Jesus has now pointed to the end. That end here should be a reference to the end of the age. Notice how the disciples of Jesus are supposed to preach the gospel in the midst of persecution and tribulation until the end. In Matthew 13:39, the parable of the tares already gave us the phrase “the harvest is the end of the age”. Wheat and tares are intermingled until the end of the age. Finally, in the great commission in Matthew 28:18-20, Jesus says that He would be with those that preach the gospel making disciples of all nations until the end of the age. If these verses are for the church to go and make disciples, then this end of the age is for the church. Matthew is only speaking of one “end of the age.”
Note: I have mentioned this in other posts. Matthew only teaches one “end of the age”. The end of the age in the Olivet Discourse is the same end of the age in the Great Commission, which most Bible commentators, even pre-trib, believe that the Great Commission is for the church. So why is the end of the age in the Great Commission for the church, but the end of the age in the Olivet Discourse is not for the church?
Matthew 24:15 ~ The Sign. Now Jesus gives the sign of His coming. “When you see the abomination of desolation.” Now we know what the sign of His coming will be. What is this abomination of desolation? Jesus said that the answer lies in Daniel the prophet. He also says this abomination will be standing in the holy place and Mark 13:14 adds “standing where it ought not.” A composite study of Daniel 9:27, 11:31, 12:11 shows that it is an event whereby sacrifices at the temple are put to a stop and something abominable is set up in its place. Our studies show that this event occurs at the midpoint of a 7 year period which is yet in the future.
Matthew 24:16-20 ~ Specific Instructions. At the fulfillment of that sign (the abomination of desolation), Jesus has specific instructions for those living in Judea. What does He tell them to do? What does this tell us about the location of the abomination of desolation?
Matthew 24:21-28 ~ The Great Tribulation. The abomination of desolation will begin the great tribulation. The great tribulation should not be any different than the previous tribulation except it is greater (Greek word megas from which we get the word mega). We have shifted from tribulation against followers of Jesus Christ which happens all throughout the existence of the church to an even greater tribulation which begins after the abomination of desolation. There is no reason to suggest that the tribulation is against a different group of people. In fact, the use of the word elect confirms that the great tribulation is against those whom Christ has chosen. The Greek word for elect is eklektos and is used in Matthew 22:14, “For many are called, but few are chosen (eklektos).” Word Study on elect: Luke 18:7, Romans 8:33, Colossians 3:12, II Timothy 2:10, Titus 1:1, I Peter 2:9 (a chosen, eklektos generation), Revelation 17:14 (chosen, eklektos). Will the elect be put to death at this time? What supernatural things will be happening during this time? What lie might some people believe that Christ warns against?
Note: This study on the word “elect” was to show that Jesus is speaking to followers of Jesus Christ, not the unbelieving nation of Israel.
Matthew 24:29-31 ~ The Coming of the Son of Man. When does Jesus come? What signs will occur immediately before that coming? Who is gathered at this time? These cosmic signs are mentioned in other places in the scriptures. What clue does Joel 2:31 give us? Read Revelation 6:12-17 and see if you think this is the same event.
Note: I wrote on the marker board a timeline which shows the great tribulation beginning at the midpoint of a seven year period. Then I put the Return of Christ with cosmic signs as an interruption. Then immediately after that I put the phrase The Day of the LORD, according to the above scriptures. After I put the gathering of the elect up there as well, one person asked, “But I thought we weren’t going to be here because the rapture was going to be before all this?” I said, “Doesn’t that get back to what I said at the beginning? Some people say before you can read this passage that there are additional things to be added before we even read the passage. Where does it say in this passage that the rapture happens first?” There was no response.
Matthew 24:32-35 ~ The Parable of the Fig Tree. We know that summer is near right now because leaves are appearing on the trees. Note: I taught this in May of last year. How soon will summer arrive once leaves appear on the trees? What does Jesus mean by “when we see all these things, we know that it is near”? Which generation was Jesus referring to?
Who remembers the book 88 Reasons Why the Rapture will be in 1988? Edgar Whisenant was quoted as saying, “Only if the Bible is in error am I wrong; and I say that to every preacher in town” and “[I]f there were a king in this country and I could gamble with my life, I would stake my life on Rosh Hashana 88.” A misinterpretation of this parable, the parable of the fig tree, is one of the main reasons why he sold 4.5 million copies of his book. Here is his faulty interpretation: “This last generation spoken of above started on 14 May 1948, the day Israel became a nation. Israel is the time clock of God throughout history. Israel is the blooming fig tree, and the last generation will end 40 wicked gentile years later on 14 May 1988.”
Have you been told things about the second coming of Jesus that you believe but they are not found in scripture?
Have fun and stay busy – Luke 19:13
-The Orange Mailman
The Orange Mailman 
Oman> This is what a lot of teachers do. Before you can read the Olivet Discourse, they will give you a bunch of information that is not in the text, and in fact in not in the Bible anywhere, and then after their long complicated explanations about why the Olivet Discourse is not for the church, then they will say, okay, now you can go ahead and read the text.
We are going to read through the entire Olivet Discourse and let it speak for itself. So, on with the lesson.
rapazoe> amen!!! brother amen !!!
Oman> My point of view is that the birth pains are occurring right now and have been all throughout history. … The End of the Age in Matthew. Note that in response to the question of, “What shall be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”, Jesus has now pointed to the end. That end here should be a reference to the end of the age.
rapazoe> how can these signs be for the time of the end if they are just normal events covering the entire age? What is special about the end of days signs ??? … Is Cov19 a pestilence at the end of the age ?
Oman> The Greek word for elect is eklektos and is used in Matthew 22:14, “For many are called, but few are chosen (eklektos).” … This study on the word “elect” was to show that Jesus is speaking to followers of Jesus Christ, not the unbelieving nation of Israel.
rapazoe> amen bro !!! … Matt 24 is for the elect who are on the earth at this time of the “end of days”. No mention of Israel in Matt 24 … but look at Rev 7 and see the 144,000 reps of Israel on the earth. and then the “great multitude” raptured to heaven. … Matt 24 is exclusively for the elect church and NOT for Israel. … but the promises for Israel is not forgotten … as Israel appears in Rev.7 at the beginning of the “Day of the Lord” … days of awe … atonement
Oman> What clue does Joel 2:31 give us? Read Revelation 6:12-17 and see if you think this is the same event.
rapazoe> absolutely the same event – The Day of the Lord – DoL
Joe 2:31 The sun will be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of Yahweh comes.
The DoL is introduced with cosmic signs, Jesus appearing in the clouds, the rapture of the elect to heaven. … then the wrath of God on the world and those “left behind”.
Oman> Then I put the Return of Christ with cosmic signs as an interruption.
Then immediately after that I put the phrase The Day of the LORD, according to the above scriptures. After I put the gathering of the elect up there as well
rapazoe> you changed the order of events !!! … please do NOT do that
the correct order as follows:
Mat 24:27-28 end of this present age
Mat 24:29 Day of the Lord begins
Mat 24:30 Son of Man coming on the clouds
Mat 24:31 rapture – gather together His chosen ones
The Lord is not active until this age ends and the Day of the Lord begins!!!
Considering the state of end of days confusion … we really need to stick to the order of events as Jesus explicitly placed them.
Oman> Have you been told things about the second coming of Jesus that you believe but they are not found in scripture?
rapazoe> soooooo what is your understanding of the fig tree parable ???
what are you teaching here ???
rapazoe – 10 May 2020
>>>rapazoe> how can these signs be for the time of the end if they are just normal events covering the entire age? What is special about the end of days signs ??? … Is Cov19 a pestilence at the end of the age ?>>>
Jesus is not saying these things are end of days signs. He states not to raise a false alarm when those things happen. He disassociates them with the end of the age. The cross reference you should check out is Romans 8:22 in context. COVID-19 is just like SARS, Swine Flu, the Black Plague, many other birth pains that have been ongoing all throughout history. They are not signs of the end of the age since Jesus said when those things happen to not be alarmed that the end is at hand. Any war or rumor of a war, any earthquake, none of those things are to be considered end of days signs.
>>>rapazoe> soooooo what is your understanding of the fig tree parable ???
what are you teaching here ???>>>
The fig tree is symbolic of what will happen at the end of the age. When summer is getting close, we see the leaves on the trees as a sign that summer will soon follow. And it happens that way every year. In the same when, when a certain generation sees the sign of the abomination of desolation, then the coming of Christ will soon follow. Many people teach that the fig tree is Israel and that the sign was her reconstitution in 1948, but there is no justification from the text for that point of view.
Have fun and stay busy – Luke 19:13
-The Orange Mailman
thanks for your reply Oman …
Agree plagues, wars and famines have taken place through the centuries.
However, birthpains occur just before birth, with an increase in frequency and intensity.
I guess the question is … should we be alarmed when we see “birthpains” (more frequency & intensity)?
or … should we say like non-believers
Oh well … just another day like all other days !
Mat 24:8 But all these things are the beginning of birth pains.
Jesus says that birthpains has a beginning at the end of this age
are you saying that “birth pains” began and are ongoing for 2000 years so do not be alarmed ?
Mat 24:33 Even so you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Most certainly I tell you, this generation will not pass away, until all these things are accomplished.
many generations have come and gone in 2000 yrs
are you saying that birth has been near for 2000 years?
.”this generation” … what generation? how long is a generation ?
Luk 21:29 He told them a parable. “See the fig tree, and all the trees.
Luk 21:30 When they are already budding, you see it and know by your own selves that the summer is already near.
Strange that Jesus would point to the fig tree budding as a sign of change of seasons
if there really is no change as we approach the end of days.
rapazoe – 12 May 2020
>>>are you saying that “birth pains” began and are ongoing for 2000 years so do not be alarmed ?>>>
Jesus said not to raise a false alarm when we see any of those things happen. That basically means do not think that the coming of the Son of Man is going to happen just because we have a plague or an earthquake.
The sign that Jesus was pointing to is the Abomination of Desolation. When we see that sign, then we know that the coming of Christ is near. It states “When you see ALL these things, know that it is near, even at the door.” So when we see ALL of those things, the abomination of desolation followed by the great tribulation, then we know that the coming of Christ is near.
Hi Darrin,
You said in the present article:
“My point of view is that the birth pains are occurring right now and have been
all throughout history.”
You realize that this is counter intuitive. It would mean that the birth pain would have lasted more than 2000 years. If it is the case the analogy would be meaningless. In real life, labor pain comes suddenly at the very end of a 9 months pregnancy. In most case it lasts a few hours but it could extend to a day. Birth pains foretell that the travail of hard labor is approaching.
Yeshua associated the birth pain with
• Matt 24:7-8 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be
famines and earthquakes in various places. NIV
• Luke 21:10-11 Then he said to them: “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against
kingdom. There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and
fearful events and great signs from heaven. NIV
There have been wars, famines, pestilences and earthquakes in the past; even great signs in the heaven have been seen (eclipse, comets), but it is doubtful that all these events ever occurred at the same time together. I believe that this is what Yeshua is talking about; I believe this is why he compares it to labor pain.
To who was addressed the message delivered by Yeshua?
• Matt 24:6 but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still
to come. NIV
It would make sense if He was then informing us, the generation that is called to go through the Tribulation.
Like many others Christians I sense that we are closing to the end time and there are not many years left. That doesn’t mean that there is not enough time to produce the cocktail of evens enumerated in Matt 24:7-8. We have just seen with the Corona virus how the normal life of everybody can suddenly, in the space of a few months, change completely all across the planet. I am not saying that the Corona virus is part of the birth pain, only time will prove or disprove that. What I am saying is we should prepare for the unexpected. The birth pain could start at any time and this will impact our life like nothing before, but we should not be alarmed, Yeshua is telling us that the worse is yet to come.
1 Thess 5:3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. NIV
Read Romans 8:18-23 and tell me when these birth pains in this passage are occurring.
We need to go by what the text states, not what we intuitively think birth pains are about before we even look at the text. Birth pains are associated with the end of the age, but they also have been occurring all throughout history. Jesus said not to raise a false alarm when these things happen. That word for “be alarmed” is throeo and is only used twice in the NT, both times in relation to the coming of Christ. The other time it is used is in II Thessalonians 2:2 when referring to the Day of the LORD and coming of Christ. Do not be alarmed since the revealing of the man of sin and apostasy must occur FIRST. It is the same in Matthew 24. Do not be alarmed when these things happen because the real sign before the coming of the Son of Man is the abomination of desolation.
Have fun and stay busy – Luke 19:13
-The Orange Mailman
P.S. Time is different for God than for us.
You brought an interesting reference with Romans 8:18-23. I did a lot of research to help me understand the real meaning of it. I don’t think it is said in an apocalyptic context. I found the following study to be above everything else I read on the subject.
From Laurie J Braaten All Creation Groans: Romans 8:22 in Light of the Biblical Sources
Ref: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233573268_All_Creation_Groans_Romans_822_in_Light_of_the_Biblical_Sources
I agree with you that the real sign ( 2 Thess 2:2) will be the establishment of the man of sin. But I persist to think that the birth pain reference was not meant to spread over 2000 years. If it was the case the analogy would be meaningless. Birth pain, in the apocalyptic context of Matt 24., denotes a dramatic transition between a tolerable state and a final phase. With the benefit of hindsight nobody would associate the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD or, closer to us, the events of 1914 or 1939 with birth pain because no matter how terrible these events were , other signs of Matt 24:7-8 were not present. Right now we are going through the Covid epidemic; it is much too early to tell if it is the beginning of birth pain. However if the Covid was to be followed not long after with other problems that would impact the whole planet and it would keep intensifying over a relative short period … it would then make sense to think that the Covid was part of the Birth pain.
A day will come and the Christians will be aware that the Birth pain are going on, to those unfamiliar with the chronology of the Bible, it will be a real eye opener. They will believe that the end is happening and will be terrified by it. Yeshua is telling us not to be alarmed by these cataclysms because others events are going to take place also. (arrival of the man of sin, tribulation ..)
Saying that time is different for God than for us doesn’t prove your point. No doubt that God perceive time in a different way. But if 1000 years is for God as one day it is not the same for us. In my comprehension, the birth pains are a signal for the end time period. A signal cannot last 2000 years.
I really enjoy your articles and disagreeing with you on the meaning of the birth pain (time will tell) doesn’t make your teaching less relevant.
Yves p.
Thanks for your reply Oman … I have my Bible open and ready at all times
I use the WEB translation (World English Bible) … its great because
– based on the American Standard Version – considered the best literal translation available
– corrected by received text – so if you like KJV translation then WEB will not violate KJV greek text
– ASV is updated to 2003 i think so it reads well in todays English
– other languages available
– Open source ie: free to use – Most translations legally limit use to a couple verses in a chapter however the WEB you can quotes all of the chapter or even all the bible if you want. very liberating
– available on eSword (windows) and xiphos (linux) … wow
– pdf and audio versions available for free download … wow … wow
– no excuse not to have a good Bible translation at hand.
“all these things”
Mat 13 are parables specifically about the Kingdom
Mat 13:51 Jesus said to them, “Have you understood all these things?” They answered him, “Yes, Lord.”
“all these things”
Mat 24 are parables specifically about His parousia
Mat 24:8 But all these things are the beginning of birth pains.
Oman> So when we see ALL of those things, the abomination of desolation followed by the great tribulation, then we know that the coming of Christ is near.
rapazoe> “all these things” means …. ALL the things Jesus talked about in Mat 24. which includes:
“birth pains” – false christs, wars, famine, plagues, earthquakes
“oppression” – elect delivered up, hated
“many stumble” – hate one another, fall away
“This good news of the Kingdom will be preached in the whole world” –
“abomination of desolation”
“great oppression” – great tribulation
“false christs”, “false prophets” – great signs
Oman> The sign that Jesus was pointing to is the Abomination of Desolation.
rapazoe> NO where in this text does it say that “Jesus was pointing” specifically to any individual sign. Just the opposite … Jesus was point to ALL the signs.
All these things is not in any way limited to the “abomination of desolation” and “great tribulation”. If you redact all the other signs then this verse in Revelation may/should apply. It is a serious error to add or subtract from the Word of God.
Rev 22:19 If anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, may God take away his part from the tree of life, and out of the holy city, which are written in this book.
Is it a pre-wrath thing not to include “birth pains” as signs of the end times ?
Why do you redact “All” the signs to just two ??? … when … Jesus never said any such thing !!!
Let’s be Bereans
Act 17:11 Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
rapazoe – 12 May 2020
Oman> The End of the Age in Matthew. Note that in response to the question of, “What shall be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”, Jesus has now pointed to the end. That end here should be a reference to the end of the age.
… Matthew is only speaking of one “end of the age.”
rapazoe> agree that there is only one “end of the age” …. but where is it … where/what is Jesus pointing to ?
All the events in Mat 24 are leading up to the “end of the age” … but where precisely does Jesus answer their question ???
Jesus is a rabbi and is expected to answer the disciples questions … it would be considered a failure even a faulty rabbi if He did not answer this specific question. (which is why the other rabbis were always asking him trick questions … to trip Him up and expose Jesus as a fraud)
Mat_24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
so Jesus will/must answer this question … but where ? Jesus gives us some clues in Mat.24
up to verse 6, wars … the end is not yet
Mat_24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mar_13:7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.
Luk_21:9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
verse 13, the end must be close to the rapture / salvation
Mat_24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mar_13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
verse 14, no way humanly possible to tell when the gospel of the kingdom is preached in all the world … so its a clue but not a precise one we can discover ?
Mat_24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
verse 21, we know this age continues because the great tribulation is against the elect.
Mat 24:21 for then there will be great oppression, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever will be.
We also know precisely the beginning of the New Age / Kingdom Age / Day of the Lord / Lord’s Day / Day of His wrath
Mat 24:29 But immediately after the oppression of those days, the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken;
aligning with the book of Revelation … Jesus is the author of both Olivet discourse and Revelation
Rev 6:12 I saw when he opened the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake. The sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became as blood.
Rev 6:13 The stars of the sky fell to the earth, like a fig tree dropping its unripe figs when it is shaken by a great wind.
Rev 6:14 The sky was removed like a scroll when it is rolled up. Every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 The kings of the earth, the princes, the commanding officers, the rich, the strong, and every slave and free person, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains.
Rev 6:16 They told the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb,
Rev 6:17 for the great day of his wrath has come; and who is able to stand?”
Therefore, the end of this present age must be somewhere between Mat.24:21 and Mat.24:28
but exactly where ??? … Was Jesus more precise ???
rapazoe 12 May 2020
Oman> Read Romans 8:18-23 and tell me when these birth pains in this passage are occurring.
We need to go by what the text states, not what we intuitively think birth pains are about before we even look at the text. Birth pains are associated with the end of the age, but they also have been occurring all throughout history.
rapazoe> Oman I did as you suggested and checked out Romans 8:18-23
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now.
and compared it with Mat.24
Mat 24:8 But all these things are the beginning of birth pains.
and
The Greek for “pain” and “birth pains” are not the same !!!
Rom 8:22 – “pain” is a sympathetic pain expecting relief at some general time.
translating “pain” in Rom 8:22 as “birth pain” is incorrect and misleading the reader.
G4944 sunodino
From G4862 and G5605; to have (parturition) pangs in company (concert, simultaneously) with, that is, (figuratively) to sympathize (in expectation of relief from suffering): – travail in pain together.
Total KJV occurrences: 1
Mat 24:8 odin – is used specifically to refer to “birth pains”
translating “birth pain” in Mat.24:8 as “birth pain” is absolutely correct.
G5604 odin
Akin to G3601; a pang or throe, especially of childbirth: – pain, sorrow, travail.
Total KJV occurrences: 4
Conclusion: “pain” in Rom 8:22 should never be translated at “birth pain”
“birth pain” as translated in Mat.24:8 should always be translated as “birth pain”.
therefore: “We need to go by what the text states, not what we intuitively think birth pains are about before we even look at the text.” (greek text)
“Birth pains are associated with the end of the age”, … yes as in Mat.24:8
but
“they also have been occurring all throughout history.” … NO … this is a false and misleading statement. If the writer wanted to convey the idea of “birth pains” he could have easily use the Greek word “odin” …
but … He did not use this word … to convey the idea of “birth pains”
Therefore the “birth pains” used in Mat.24:8 are unique to the end of the age as Jesus intended.
Yes we should not be terrified by these events … we can be conforted that Jesus is in control of the end time events. Birth pains are not a thing to be terrified over but rather these things are a wake up call for believers to expect the end (birth) soon. The “end of the age” is the focus of what Jesus is talking about in the Olivet discourse.
G2360
θροέω
throeō
From θρέομαι threomai (to wail); to clamor, that is, (by implication) to frighten: – trouble.
Watch and pray…. the end is not yet … but we know it is near …
rapazoe – 20 May 2020
behold a pale horse
Hi Darrin,
Matt 24 is obviously one of the most important chapter of the Gospels. Do you have any opinion about what part was meant to address the period before 70 AD and what part is likely meant for the end time? In case you are planning to address this topic in the future is there anything you can share at this time?
Thanks, Yves P.
I believe that Jesus addressed the destruction of the temple more primarily in Luke 21. I believe Luke 21 is the Temple Discourse. Jesus answered in the hearing of the crowds then later gave the Olivet Discourse which primarily addresses His second coming. If you do a search for Luke 21 on my blog you can probably find some of my articles. I have not written on that in quite some time. Here is one post from 13 years ago.
https://theorangemailmanmyblog.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/jesus-prophetically-pronounced-judgement-on-his-own-generation/
Interesting reference, thanks. I also believe that the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD is also alluded in Daniel 70 weeks prophecy.
Dan 9:26 “And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood, NKJV
It says that after the 69 weeks (7+62) the Messiah (Yeshua) will be killed. But it also says that the people of the prince who will come will destroy the city and sanctuary. We have two clues to argue that the destruction of the Temple mentioned here refers to the events of 70 AD and not the events of the end time (70th week).
First: The people of the prince
We all know that Jerusalem and the Temple were destroyed in 70 AD by the three legions of the army of Titus. Interestingly Titus had given orders to his soldiers to preserve the Temple. But the soldiers in their fury disobeyed and set fire to the Temple. (As mention by Daniel 9:26 it is the people of the prince ‘not the prince’ himself who were responsible for the destruction of the 2nd Temple.
Second. The end of it shall be with a flood
Recent estimates of the population of Jerusalem in 70 AD suggest something in the neighborhood of a hundred thousand” yet Josephus claims that 1.1 million people were killed during the siege. (Event thought Josephus could be wrong in his estimation and only half of a million of people were killed it won’t matter) Josephus attributes to the celebration of Passover, which he uses as rationale, for the vast number of people present among the death toll. The point here is that several hundred thousands of people came to Jerusalem for the Passover without any fears that they could not return home after the celebration. They were completely taken by surprise when Titus army suddenly encircled the city and trapped them. Isn’t that a true representation of an end that shall come like a flood?
The End of Dan 9:26, that I have just discussed, is associated with a ‘flood’. It shouldn’t be confused with the other ‘End’ that is mentioned in Dan 9:27. This last one is associated with a decreed that will be ‘poured’ out. The expression ‘pour out’ is strongly echoed in the event of the End time mentioned in Revelation.
Rev 16:1 Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go, pour out the seven bowls of God’s wrath on the earth.” NIV
Yves P.
That’s a pretty good summary of my view as well. Not too sure about the “flood” though. I’m not saying I disagree, I just haven’t given it serious consideration.
Oman> Matthew 24:15 ~ The Sign. Now Jesus gives the sign of His coming. “When you see the abomination of desolation.” Now we know what the sign of His coming will be.
rapazoe> NOT so Oman … it is a signal … RUN … “Mat 24:16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
The SIGN is not mentioned until Mat 24:30 … and then …
Mat 24:30 and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky. Then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.
but … what is the sign ???
well
just go to …THE SIGN… by Robert Van Kampen … the ultimate authority on all things pre-wrath!
I read all 518 pages (twice or three times) looking for the “sign”
read for yourself … “What Will be The Sign?” pages 283-291
Bizzare and ironic that Van Kampen beats a lot of bushes but does not say what the “sign” is even though its the title of his book.
I can only deduce that Van Kampen does not know what the sign is.
Go to goodreads and it has a 4.00 rating … wow
One reviewer commented “The author’s work is well thought out and extremely organized. His overview of the Scriptures relating to end time events is as exhaustive as possible and very understandable and persuasive.”
rapazoe> found it just the opposite! … very disorganized … off on tangents … hard to follow what he is talking about.
or
go to amazon and buy the updated paperback version for only $70.00 … what ??? … are you choking me ???
or better yet …
send me $7.00 and I will tell you what the real “SIGN” is !
its a bargooon at any price …
rapazoe – 4 July 2020
Oman> great tribulation beginning at the midpoint of a seven year period.
rapazoe> ok i can buy that
Oman> Then I put the Return of Christ with cosmic signs as an interruption. Then immediately after that I put the phrase The Day of the LORD, according to the above scriptures.
rapazoe> Yes the sign of the DOL is the cosmic darkening
Oman> After I put the gathering of the elect up there as well, one person asked, “But I thought we weren’t going to be here because the rapture was going to be before all this?”
rapazoe> Yahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh right onnnnnnnnnnnn “one person”
where would you get a crazy idea like that ??? … THE SIGN … page 281
the SIGN> page 281 “It is interesting to note that the disciples asked their quiestions in the specific order that these events will occur – first Christ will return, and then God will pour out judgment, at “the end of the age.” Likewise, in Matthew 24:4-29 Christ answers these questions in the order asked by the disciples. But in verse 30 Christ makes it clear that the signs will occur in the reverse sequence of the events; that is, the sign of the end of the age actually precedes the sign of Christ’s coming. WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?
It is essential to understand the order of this sequence according to the way Christ taught that this will occur, that the sign of the end of the age will actually precede the sign of his coming, strange as that may seem, in light of the fact that Christ’s coming will actually precede the Day of the Lord. We will do this by first considering in this chapter, What will be the sign of the end of the age?” and then, in the next chapter, turning to the second question, “What will be the sign of Christ’s coming?”
rapazoe> WHAT? … “signs will occur in the reverse sequence of the events.”
Jesus says the sequence of events will be
DOL – parousia – rapture. … essentially understand that order !!
Van Kampen does a little reverse engineering and says the events will actually happen in this order …
rapture – parousia – DOL……………..”are you not entertained?” by this card trick
Van Kampen claims that vs 30 demands this reversal !
well here is verse 30 … I dont see any reversal action asked for here!!! do you?
Mat 24:30 and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky. Then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.
sooooooo … who you gonna believe Jesus or Van Kampen
a clear cut … bare faced … FALSE teaching …
Oman> I said, “Doesn’t that get back to what I said at the beginning? Some people say before you can read this passage that there are additional things to be added before we even read the passage.
rapazoe> yah preach it Oman … amen bro !!! … let em have it … both barrels
Some people like … Robert Van Kampen “the sign” … and
Charles Cooper – parousia mag 6 edition
Oman> Where does it say in this passage that the rapture happens first?” There was no response.
rapazoe> of course “no response” … your observation goes against fundamental pre-wrath teaching … rapture – parousia – DOL
do you want them to get tossed out of the cult ???
The Bible/Jesus is clear … DOL – parousia – rapture … …. NO reversal
Oman> Have you been told things about the second coming of Jesus that you believe but they are not found in scripture?
rapazoe> I dont beleive it but this is what … Van Kampen – the SIGN – pre-wrath – and Charles Cooper teach …
rapazoe> Another mystery … NOT solved … what is the sign of the end of the age ? … Van Kampen does not say and does not know.
send me $7.00 and I will tell you …
OR … today only … I will answer both discounted $10.00
sign of the end of the age … and … sign of Jesus coming
what a deal !!! dont delay … RUN
rapazoe – 4 July 2020